February 13th, 2006


TL and SS conversation: Intelligence entry

SeanStanard: hey
TLJulyThree: hey
SeanStanard: im not actually offending you in the slightest am i?
TLJulyThree: lol, no
SeanStanard: promise x 100?
TLJulyThree: you know i like to add drama
SeanStanard: lol, i know but so do i and sometimes too much drama turns into silent resentment
TLJulyThree: yeah man, if i was actually mad or offended i would ignore you, not be sarcastic
SeanStanard: ok
SeanStanard: man, what a great forum your LJ is turing out to be though huh
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: its amazing. i love it to death
SeanStanard: i check it like hourly
TLJulyThree: it's become quite interesting, i must say
SeanStanard: i think you should really let us all bicker over one subject for like a month, and then post something new
TLJulyThree: what do you think my next topic should be?
TLJulyThree: what topic would u be interested in discussing?
SeanStanard: i was serious when i said you have the perfect defense. i would be interested in discussing a topic you had an oppinion on
SeanStanard: like a factual beliefe. like a "i believe THIS!" kinda topic
SeanStanard: or if you dont have any resounding beliefs just yet, then some axioms
TLJulyThree: oh, hahahaha
SeanStanard: (im at work btw so i may disapear randomly)
TLJulyThree: well i do genuinely believe that intelligence is too subjective
TLJulyThree: ok
SeanStanard: see theres the problem
SeanStanard: you dont have intelligence even DEFINED but you are arguing that it is subjective
SeanStanard: you cant argue about concepts that arnt yet defined
TLJulyThree: hahahaha, well that's just it, im complaining about people using that word and wanting it
TLJulyThree: and you and i both know skepticism is a bitch, and that's the point you are making
TLJulyThree: i'm being the skeptic
SeanStanard: yeah but its like the old saying goes. any asswhole can be a skeptic. thats easy. the hard part is standing up for something you believe in.
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: (ok so the saying isnt that old, but its not mine)
SeanStanard: *asshole
TLJulyThree: in my last lj, i was simply asking that peole define and understand what they mean when they say intelligence, because i am under the assumption that they dont have a concrete idea, thus making it a mood
SeanStanard: skepticism doesnt foster discusion, it kills it. especially your kind(kinds that just attack but not from anywhere specific) of skepticism.
TLJulyThree: i use no such terms, nor do i seek to be around intelligent people
SeanStanard: a mood? come one man. a MOOD??
TLJulyThree: YES. a state of being
SeanStanard: but a mood? thats a bullshit term
TLJulyThree: well a state of mind would be more accurate
SeanStanard: mood means emotions, and thats just a dumb deffinition
SeanStanard: the state of mind you talk about is arrogance, not intelligence
TLJulyThree: no, but mood invovles emotions and thought processes
SeanStanard: or atleast you tie the two together like they were married
TLJulyThree: i do
SeanStanard: no. just no.
SeanStanard: thats retarded
SeanStanard: they're not the same thing
SeanStanard: they are nowhere near the same thing
TLJulyThree: arrogance is believing you are better then someone else, and intelligence is believing you are metally superior then someone else
SeanStanard: a lot of athletes are arrogant. does that mean all athletes are arrogant. does that mean im athletic if im arrogant. NO!
SeanStanard: intelligence is NOT believing you are mentally superior to someone else
SeanStanard: i dont know how you even begin to say that
TLJulyThree: nicole's definition
SeanStanard: again, totally baseless statement
SeanStanard: not mine, yours?
TLJulyThree: mine what?
SeanStanard: is that your deffinition?
TLJulyThree: nicole defined intelligence as mental superiority
SeanStanard: she didnt define it as the belief in mental superiority
SeanStanard: which is what you are saying
SeanStanard: TOTALLY different
TLJulyThree: i put in belief, because intelligence as she stated, is relative
TLJulyThree: so you would have to believe you are more intelligent
SeanStanard: not true
TLJulyThree: unless we all take IQ tests
SeanStanard: you thought you were dumb till i told you you were not
TLJulyThree: and even those are faulty as hell
SeanStanard: does that mean you were dumb cause you didnt think you were smart?
TLJulyThree: i still believe i am dumb
SeanStanard: im not EVEN getting into quantification yet...
SeanStanard: people can be intelligent and not know it all the time
TLJulyThree: i think if i was to believe i was smarter then others, then i would fall under the large percent of americans who believe they are smarter then all the other americans
SeanStanard: wtf?
SeanStanard: you really just said if i believe i am smarter than i believe i am smarter
SeanStanard: did that statement have a point?
TLJulyThree: no i said if i believe i am smarter, then i would be one out the large percent of people in america who believe that
TLJulyThree: i think my intelligence is average
SeanStanard: ok so if i was a tea cup tehn i would be one out of many teacups in the world...
SeanStanard: what was that supposed to mean?
SeanStanard: yeah so what, there are arrogant people in the world
TLJulyThree: there are a lot of people out there who believe they are smarter then most others, and they have no bases for believing that
SeanStanard: ok...
TLJulyThree: just as i have no basis for believing that i am smarter then most others
TLJulyThree: unless you say to me, "thomas, intelligence is not subjective, it's not relative"
SeanStanard: you're being a retard. you are going so far back into the basics right now. you are honestly arguing the "do i exhist" argument. but more in the form of "do i know what i think i know"
SeanStanard: and THAT is why i didnt want to argue with you about the quantification of intelligence. because you havnt agreed to the basics
TLJulyThree: ok, let me clarify the whole situation in which i present. If i was to argue for intelligence, i would say that intelligence invovles the ability to process information
TLJulyThree: that means, everyone can be intelligent
SeanStanard: yeah, and everyone can walk
SeanStanard: some people are better than others, some practice more. some run, some compete in the olympics
SeanStanard: some people cant walk cause they ate too damn much McFattys
TLJulyThree: yes, but you can go so far as to say, i want to walk with a person with a limp in his/her left leg
SeanStanard: huh?
TLJulyThree: i would never start off by saying intelligence is relative, because that only proves my point
SeanStanard: wait, you have a point?
TLJulyThree: what do we really mean when we say we are intelligent and we want to be around intelligent people?
TLJulyThree: you know i always have a point
SeanStanard: i know you THINK you have a point. im not sure you do though
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: :c)
TLJulyThree: for the people outside of the box, they see it and they laugh
TLJulyThree: for those who dont understand it, they only get sucked into it
TLJulyThree: it's a trap sean
SeanStanard: wtf?
TLJulyThree: i describe it as a mood
SeanStanard: yeah i know, logical fallicies abound
SeanStanard: whats your point again?
TLJulyThree: for example, if i was nicole i would say:
TLJulyThree: my point is, that some people are stuck in a certain mindset, and they dont understand it
TLJulyThree: they throw around the term intelligence
SeanStanard: what mindset is that?
TLJulyThree: the belief that they are better
SeanStanard: i believe i am better but i dont fall into your BS trap
SeanStanard: which by the way i maintain is retarded
TLJulyThree: it is retarded, because like you said, i'm not making an arguement, but i am making a point
SeanStanard: no, you're really not doing that either
TLJulyThree: i can tell, because you're not laughing
SeanStanard: youre trying to make other people state that intelligence is relative
SeanStanard: so?
TLJulyThree: no, i'm testing to see if they fall under the type of thinking i described. here would be a more proper answer to my question of intellgience:
TLJulyThree: intelligence is the ability to process information. Humans, even certain living creatures, have intelligence. When I say that I am intelligent, I am not stating that other people are not intelligent, rather I am pointing to a certain way of processing information
TLJulyThree: this procressing could be under logical thinking, a series of if then clauses that leads to the best outcome
TLJulyThree: i wish to surround myself with people who are capable of that type of thinking, and practices it
SeanStanard: (sorry, work stuff)but you practice it less than nicole even. so why have so much fun playing Mental Superiority Man in your lj?
SeanStanard: and by the way, thats still a shitty definition of intelligence
TLJulyThree: i'm not saying i am i mentally superior, like i said, i belive i am average
SeanStanard: because while relative, it is still somewhat quantifiable
SeanStanard: no, you acted like a superior ass in your LJ
TLJulyThree: hahahaha. intelligence is our ability to learn
TLJulyThree: i was being sarcastic in response to you
SeanStanard: well :cp
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: (now we are even)
TLJulyThree: intelligence does not simply fall under humans
SeanStanard: i never said it did...
TLJulyThree: i know
SeanStanard: but we obviously maintain intellectual superiority over almost all animals
TLJulyThree: if you mean that we are better able to learned and adapt to our environment, then yes
SeanStanard: ("to learned"?) no, much more than that
TLJulyThree: i change me tenses
SeanStanard: but equally within humans there is further seperation
SeanStanard: (i know but it was funny so i had to point it out ("i know you farted..."))
TLJulyThree: lol
TLJulyThree: i think with humans, people learn differently, but most are able to learn and adapt just fine
SeanStanard: bullshit
SeanStanard: like i said before, some people can run, some can walk, and some cant even do that because they have waisted their natural abilities
TLJulyThree: but intelligence is not all innate, it is also, very much affected by environment
SeanStanard: (btw, if nicole didnt read your LJ i would TOTALLY post "Thomas, i concede. you win. You are mentally superior to me" (its funny cause if you accept mental superiority i actually win this mini-debate)
SeanStanard: and?
TLJulyThree: hahahaha
SeanStanard: whats your point about environment
TLJulyThree: there is a difference between intelligence, and the intelligence people claim and seek
SeanStanard: i dont see one
TLJulyThree: intelligence is the procresses that occur in our mind that organizes itself in a way so we can learn
SeanStanard: my definition of intelligence matches my reality just fine.
TLJulyThree: what do you mean?
SeanStanard: whats that have to do with your point on environment?
TLJulyThree: enviroment plays a huge factor on intelligence, because we develop different types of methods of learning
SeanStanard: i mean simply that you claim a dispartiy between intelligence as it is defined and intelligence as society and culture speak of it. i'm saying there is none.
SeanStanard: yeah i know, but that still doenst mean anything to me. whats your point?
TLJulyThree: take me for an example. I stayed home alone since i was 3. My language ability was greatly hindered as a result of that. That does not take away my capability to learn, but it does change the dynamics in the way that i learn
SeanStanard: so what if environment results or does not result in intelligence. either way you still end up having more or less intelligent individuals
SeanStanard: so again i ask, whats your point? we agree environment effect intellignce
TLJulyThree: but how are you and I to determine and to measure that intelligence?
TLJulyThree: my point is that intelligence takes on many different forms, and we cannot have a concrete measure of it
SeanStanard: i said i was measuring intelligence, not worth
TLJulyThree: we can only specify the type of intelligence that we seek
SeanStanard: i can measure that intelligence a million different ways
TLJulyThree: not to claim it to be intelligence
SeanStanard: no
SeanStanard: wait
SeanStanard: go back
SeanStanard: what the hell is your point about environment
SeanStanard: you skipped like 10 steps there
SeanStanard: you told me like 15 different times that environment effects intelligence then suddenly you use that as a reason for why we cant measure it. there is not corolation there
TLJulyThree: my point with enviroment is that intelligence does not follow the same path
SeanStanard: i can tell you if a kid is dumb or not. i dont care why when i am telling you
TLJulyThree: and how would you determine?
SeanStanard: but intelligence DOES follow the same paths (read the s in there extra strong)
TLJulyThree: similar direction, but different paths
SeanStanard: no
SeanStanard: your english is kind of crap. mine is not. you speak another language, i do not. same path (language) just different levels of ability
SeanStanard: but still the SAME path
SeanStanard: regardless of environment(you still havnt made that point)
TLJulyThree: ok think of it like this, you can articulate ideas better in english, then i can. Does that mean i dont have the same idea?
TLJulyThree: i might not be able to articulate it but i can still act on it
SeanStanard: again, no points made. im not measuring your ideas through your language, im measuring your language through your language
TLJulyThree: ok, then what is your definition of intelligence, because i am working on a definition on our ability to learn and adapt to our environment
TLJulyThree: and environment affects what type of ability we choose
SeanStanard: WHAT???
TLJulyThree: intelligence is how we process information and use that information
SeanStanard: ok, multiple intelligences yeigh or neigh?
TLJulyThree: yeigh
SeanStanard: ok, same here
SeanStanard: so going back to your first argument (your second of environment still means nothing to me) i can adapt better to my linguistic environemnt than you can. i'm still better at speaking the language...
TLJulyThree: you had all the time to focus on english, i had korean and english
TLJulyThree: i think i adapted very differently than you
SeanStanard: and? im not arguing the why
SeanStanard: thats not a relavent part of this conversation (yet)
TLJulyThree: ok, then continues
SeanStanard: so i can think im better than you at english because as we have discussed, i am.
TLJulyThree: ok
SeanStanard: as per that specific intelligence
SeanStanard: and my argument doesnt need a "why" thats a wholey seperate field
TLJulyThree: ok, continue
SeanStanard: what more do i need to prove?
SeanStanard: you seem to have conceeded from where i stand
TLJulyThree: that when you say intelligence, we all understand it to be the same thing that we are a looking for.
TLJulyThree: when you say you want to be around intelligent people are you saying you want to be around articulate people?
SeanStanard: lol
TLJulyThree: articulation is one type of intelligence
SeanStanard: yes, i want the best of the best
TLJulyThree: the king of the crop huh?
SeanStanard: intelligence as it is culturally defined is the best of the best
SeanStanard: (its cream of the crop)
TLJulyThree: lol
TLJulyThree: :-P
SeanStanard: im not sure whether that was an accident or not
SeanStanard: ANYWAYS...
SeanStanard: like you always said, those social retards that think they are intelligent but cant get dates are not intelligent
TLJulyThree: i find intelligence in the social outcasts, and the social butterflies
SeanStanard: they have one of many intelligences but they clearly lack in other departments. that makes for someone i dont want to surround myself with(i should clearify i dont mind having an expert of each intelligence around me. they all eventually serve my purpose)
SeanStanard: exactly
SeanStanard: that couldnt have proven my point more
SeanStanard: questions?
SeanStanard: arguments?
SeanStanard: fart jokes?
TLJulyThree: i think we are on the same page now
TLJulyThree: oh and i farted
SeanStanard: i never moved so did you flip the page?
SeanStanard: LOL
TLJulyThree: no, i didnt move either
SeanStanard: if we are on the same page you did
SeanStanard: *sigh
TLJulyThree: no, i still believe there are different types and forms of intelligence, and that people should understand what type of intelligence they seek, when they seek it, and what type they claim, when they claim it
SeanStanard: ofcoarse you still want to include the "why" in the argument like i give a shit about that (which i don't) (and i dont mean that about you but about the conversation in general)
SeanStanard: who is really retarded enough to only seek one kind of intelligence?
TLJulyThree: hahahahaha i would call it ingenious to know what type you seek
SeanStanard: i wouldnt
TLJulyThree: i'm a very shy person, even though no one believes me, but i sought out social from time to time
TLJulyThree: so now i can be social
SeanStanard: lol i agree but your "why" still doesnt mean a whole lot to me
TLJulyThree: i have also sought out rational conversations, and only rational conversations for a certain amount of time
SeanStanard: going back to the walking thing...you can focus on your right leg or you can focus on your left, ultimately you need them both and the week one will slow you down(ie; geeks with no social skills)
TLJulyThree: to understand why you seek out intelligence, in my eyes, means to know what type you are a looking for
SeanStanard: rational is a totally different intelligence
TLJulyThree: exactly
SeanStanard: rational is the intelligence that lets you understand all your intelligences
SeanStanard: it is the most important
SeanStanard: (do NOT read: it is the only one that matters)
TLJulyThree: when someone says, "i'm intelligent and i want to surround myself with intelligent people!" my first reaction is: "whoa whoa whoa. First of all, why do you believe you are intelligent? and what do you mean when you say you want to surround yourself with intelligent people?"
SeanStanard: why does that matter?
SeanStanard: why are you the ultimate keeper of teh word intelligence?
TLJulyThree: because i am TL, and if i am not the ultimate keeper of the word intelligence then, no one who is capable, will be
SeanStanard: people ultimately know what they are talking about when they say intelligence. if someone is the worlds best musician and they say that, they are clearly talking about musical talent and not social abilities
TLJulyThree: (joke :-P)
SeanStanard: (i know i got it was a joke)
SeanStanard: lol
SeanStanard: honestyl, the (joke) was more funny than the joke
TLJulyThree: lol
TLJulyThree: see i dont think people understand what they are saying
SeanStanard: they dont need to be conscious of it to understand it
SeanStanard: it just helps a lot
TLJulyThree: see i think if they dont understand it, then they are mislead by it
TLJulyThree: and it leads them into arrogance
SeanStanard: brb, trip to the magical refrigerator of awesomeness
TLJulyThree: AWWWW
TLJulyThree: lucky
SeanStanard is away at 3:24:58 PM.
SeanStanard: back
SeanStanard: so where were we?
TLJulyThree: i hate to do this, but i must do my hwk now. i have a group meeting at 8 today

Auto response from SeanStanard: fa la la la la
thats right, i'm skipping MF!

TLJulyThree: and i feel bad just taking people's answers
SeanStanard: aww its ok. we were mostly done anyways
SeanStanard: LOL
TLJulyThree: lol
TLJulyThree: we have an exam on thurs
TLJulyThree: so i'll only hurt myself
SeanStanard: yeah. ok well have fun with your HW
SeanStanard: ttyl
TLJulyThree: later sean
TLJulyThree: oh really quickly

Auto response from SeanStanard: fa la la la la
thats right, i'm skipping MF!

SeanStanard: ?
TLJulyThree: guess what the next entry will be
SeanStanard: lol iq tests?
TLJulyThree: no. this conversation
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: lol, nice
SeanStanard: i hate nicole
SeanStanard: wait, is that on record?
SeanStanard: ok ttyl
TLJulyThree: not unless you want it to be
SeanStanard: i was totally jk
TLJulyThree: ok that last statement will not be on the record
TLJulyThree: lol
SeanStanard: lol
TLJulyThree: ok sean have a nice day
SeanStanard: you too